‘NO MZO’ — BUT HEATED RIVALRY OVER MUSKOKA CENTRE PROPERTY DOMINNATES LAZY DAYS OF BEACH AND DOCK TALKS THIS SUMMER WITH CHANGES TO CLIFF BAY PLAN
Mark Clairmont | MuskokaTODAY.com
MUSKOKA — Summer’s lazy days on the docks and beaches are heating up talks about: “What’s happening with the Muskoka Centre property in Gravenhurst?”
An ambitious “mixed use” tourism, commercial and residential plan from a year ago — which appears as laid back as a Muskoka chair — continues to undergo changes.
And it has not been green-lighted by the province, which owns the 70-acre peninsula on Lake Muskoka, to proceed without environmental oversight, says the Cliff Bay proponent Kirill Soloviev.
Despite claims otherwise by lakes associations and the Ontario Green Party, which is stirring up interest with a public meeting at the Gravenhurst Centennial Centre Tuesday night.
Soloviev, who is out of the country, referred questions today to his local planner Bob List, of Bracebridge, who offered a nuanced assessment and defence of where they’re at in a conversation with MuskokaTODAY.com.
He says any talk about a Ministerial Zoning Order (MZO) being approved by the Ontario cabinet is wildly premature.
“An MZO hasn’t even been submitted or gone anywhere to the province,” List said Monday as opposition signs have popped up and a Wenonah II boat cruise is planned to build a war chest opposing another large lake development.
List, who has worked or consulted on many other mega Muskoka waterfront projects of similar scale, including the Marriott in Minett and Deerhurst and Grandview in Huntsville, says Cliff Bay’s plan is being “further updated as we speak, to be brought forward when a couple of other alterations have been confirmed.”
That’s at least the fall if not 2027, he said. So it’s premature to talk about an MZO being approved.
An MZO, many in Muskoka believe, would put unrestrained limits on developers around water land uses. Not so, says List.
“You have to check off the boxes before you submit to the province. Then when the province gets it, it has a process to do its own assessment, which includes a final opportunity for public input.”
He said the latest plans are “very similar to what was presented at a public information meeting a year ago.
See that 2025 story: HERE’S WHAT MUSKOKA CENTRE COULD ONE DAY LOOK LIKE. FIRST, TOMORROW COULD LEAD TO ‘SOME ADJUSTMENTS,’ SAYS CLIFF BAY DEVELOPER KIRILL SOLOVIEV https://muskokatoday.com/2025/07/heres-what-muskoka-centre-could-one-day-look-like-first-tomorrow-could-lead-to-some-adjustments-says-cliff-bay-developer-kirill-soloviev/
Changes continuing possibly in to 2027
But there have been refinements made in response to public input, said List, who has been working on this project for more than three years.
He said he helped them scale back the number of units to about a third of what was originally envisioned as another grand Muskoka resort and community.
Opponents called it out of scale, inappropriate and environmentally threatening to Muskoka and its lakes.
“What we have is a bunch of people who really don’t understand the process. And are jumping the gun in terms of making conclusions” about the former TB hospital and mental health facility that closed in 1994.
History of recent land sale
According to List, “roughly five years ago, when the province couldn’t sell the property for an institutional use (or convince other ministries to use it), decided to chat with the District government of Muskoka and the Town of Gravenhurst to see what else would be acceptable to those two municipalities. And after they consulted with them, they determined jointly that a mixed use proposal would be appropriate for the property. A mixed use proposal would involve tourists/commercial development as well as residential development.
“And then based on that decision they prepared a request for proposals that went out to interested parties. My understanding is there were approximately 20 parties that expressed interest and they received a number of submissions.
“The province selected Kirill’s proposal above the others based on there being a mixed use development.”
List said it wasn’t in great detail, “it was conceptual, highly conceptual.”
“And when they (Soloviev) asked me, I said well in terms of land use I think that’s correct — a mixed use proposal is good. But I said, in terms of the scale of what you’re doing, it’ll never happen. And they didn’t believe me.
“And so they just carried on their merry way, putting together details about a proposal, and came back. And they showed it to me again a year later and they asked me what I thought — and I said it will never happen.
“They did it again. Refined it and they asked me what I thought. And I said it will never happen. I explained each time, why.
“Now they got it back to something that’s a little more real.”
Primarily, List told them, “there were too many units. It was too high and didn’t look good. It was too visible.
“To their credit, they went away, hired an architect and came back with a proposal that had buildings and structures that aren’t any higher than anything else currently in Gravenhurst. Which is good. Gravenhurst has six-storey buildings down at the Muskoka Wharf. Six- or seven storey-buildings at Muskoka Bay Golf Club. A five-storey building at the south end of town at the new hotel. And what Cliff Bay is proposing is six storeys. So that’s right in line with what the town already has.
“So then they reduced the number of units, roughly down to a third of what they were proposing. And then they took that proposal, refined it and decided to advise the public about it in an information session.
‘Oh, my God, you can’t do that’
“And of course, you get what you usually get in Muskoka, which is, ‘Oh, my God, you can’t do that on our lake.’ As opposed to people reasonably looking at it and saying, ‘well, the property is not in the waterfront designation area of the town. It’s in the urban designation.’ And in the urban designation the province expects urban densities to be developed — just not in waterfront or rural densities.
“Oh, and by the way there’s an existing sewer pipe and an existing water pipe right to the property, which has the capacity to accommodate this development. That again is highly unusual.”
List claims the amount of development that’s already zoned on the site for institutional use, in terms of GFA (gross floor area), is roughly equivalent or very similar to what is now being proposed.
“So the development isn’t any more dense than what’s already permitted on the property. The difference is it isn’t institutional use; it’s a mixed use — residential, tourist, commercial.
“If that isn’t enough to take the wind out of the sales of most of the arguments against this, then I don’t know what is.
“And anybody who is reasonable will understand that. But then again we’re not dealing with necessarily reasonable people.”
What is controversial, admits List …
List says the thing that is “controversial” is the part along the shoreline with what they call boathouse, tourist commercial accommodation units being built out over the water.
“In a manner they are like boathouses that are on Lake Muskoka. Two-storey boathouses on Lake Muskoka and about a third of them have living accommodation in them. So what’s being proposed is a boathouse type of structure, but not with an accommodation for a boat; but with accommodation for visitors. Of a lesser size than the boathouses on the lake.”
He says the Cliff Bay boathouse would be “smaller and look a little different. They’re very attractive. And the operators that they have for the property said they have to have them in to make this work. You’ve got to provide something different. That makes sense.
But List said: “When they proposed two restaurants out over the water people were upset about that. So I suggested they didn’t need to be that far out. So they’re drawing them back closer to the shoreline.
Public input paying off with changes
“Then as a result of public meetings some people said: ‘Is there any way that you can decrease the height of the building on the south end?’ And so I talked to the architect and he was able to reduce it by a storey.
“So there’s been changes that have been made. Sure.”
As for surrounding housing, some for staff, List said: “I don’t know what people expect of residential units.”
He claims “they are going to be apartment-style units. It’s a series of apartment buildings. And those apartments will have condominium descriptions against them so that you can own your individual unit. And the total number of units will be in the neighbourhood of 1,300, but it could be substantially less or a little bit more. Depends on marketing and what size will sell.”
‘Province can do what the hell it wants’
Returning to the MZO, the public believes an MZO usurps environmental protections. What do you say to that?
“That’s misleading. An MZO is an approved provincial process the province does on a regular basis from time to time. The province can do what the hell it wants. It’s the way the planning act reads, section 47.
“Although it’s usual, it’s still recognized under the Planning Act. It’s not new.
“And it’s not necessarily an exemption. And the reason a zoning order is required is if you’re going to have urban density on the shoreline of Gravenhurst Bay, you’re going to get kind of a response we’re getting, which is it will be years in front of the OMB (Local Planning Appeal Tribunal now). But people forget that it’s the province that makes it the decision with respect to planning matters, nobody else. They have the final say if they want to be involved.”
Long and established planning history
List spoke further regarding usurping rules: “It does nothing of the kind.
“In Muskoka we have a long and established history and planning process. The application and site plan control to development along the shoreline. Landscape architects working with biologists and architects design work has have to be reviewed before permits are issued and before site alteration is undertaken to ensure the environment is safe.
“Protection does not mean conservation,” said List.
“If people want to conserve the property the way it is — you don’t have any buildings or structures on it. Then they need to designate it as a parkland. Or a natural area.”
Which is what the Muskoka Community Land Trust already does.
“That’s their mandate,” said List, “to go around and buy up new properties and if they believe that it has some type of important interest in conservation. Then they get their supporters to purchase those properties. That’s good business.”
List said the overall concept, plan and proposal remains fluid.
“There are further changes being made to respond to market conditions. And there are other alterations being made that will come forward and be advertised some time in the new year. All of which will be subject to further review.”
List says no one from the public has “talked to me.”
Meanwhile “changes that are being made. I know they are not yet completed. They won’t be for two or three months.”
See Cliff Bay Youtube concept video here:
He said Cliff Bay is similar in scale to Deerhurst Resort in Huntsville and the Marriott hotel in Minett. Neither when built were in the town or township’s urban planning zones.
List said 40 years ago, he recommended to district council they “take the bull by the horns” with municipal water and sewer. And they “cowed to the Muskoka Lakes Association (MLA) and said ‘No. We’re not gonna do that.
“And of course, over time, look where they were headed anyway.”
Deerhurst, he said, had trouble with its sewage system. “Hidden Valley had major problems.” The same with Grandview Farm. “And they’re all now on water and sewer and we don’t have problems with them.
“It’s not magic. You don’t need to be much of a visionary to see these kinds of things.
“If the town of Gravenhurst and the province wanted that piece of property to be a parkland, they should have designated it for parkland purposes. And had it given to the town for a dollar and turn it into a provincial park. They decided not to do that.”
‘Town’s hands aren’t tied …’
As for the town, List said they “can’t respond to something that it hasn’t got front of it.
“There’s been no request yet made to the town to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ to this thing.”
He said the minister’s zoning order framework requires the town to pass a resolution supporting it or opposing it. They can’t do that until they have a proposal or a request in front of them. And it hasn’t been done yet because it hasn’t gotten to the point where it has been submitted.
“Their hands aren’t tied because they haven’t received anything to respond to yet.
“Other than five years ago, when they were asked what kind of use do you guys think would be appropriate on the site? They said mixed use development. And so did the district. And the province agreed. That all that’s been decided so far.”
It’s just a matter of how much of use of each.
But is everybody on the same page — including residents impacted living nearby?
List said the whole thing will be phased in and take “probably” decades to complete.
“There will be a division of the property up to I think 11 lots. Two or three of those lots will be for tourist commercial hotels. Four or five lots will be for residential apartment-style dwelling units. It’s not going to all be built at once. It will take at least 10 years. Probably more like 20 to get it built out.”
But this summer the Muskoka Centre and Cliff Bay development is the hot talk of the bay and around the Muskoka Lakes.
Everyone’s not just dreaming about the Heated Rivalry cottage.
List says since his early involvement, in 2023, he told Soloviev “it’ll never happen. Because what they were proposing was out to lunch. And I kept telling them that. And they didn’t believe me.
“Now they got it back to something that’s a little more real.”
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